Author Topic: Sony's new "fixed mirror" camera (Read 4558 times)

voyager · « **Reply #25 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:38:34 PM »

It can't be very compact because the mirror design still takes up a lot of space. So making it E-mount would not have been useful for Sony.

popo · « **Reply #26 on:** August 28, 2010, 12:43:17 AM »

What Sony have done is provide possibly the best video SLR-like camera for regular (non-pro) users, but it is nothing special for most photography uses. I used to have a Sony A350, and have wondered what if I stuck with them instead of moving to Canon for the high end. If I were still with Sony today, the A580 is what I would buy, not this. The flaws listed previously about continuous AF tracking and high speed still shooting are significant implementation flaws as far as I'm concerned. They sound great on a spec list but if they fail to deliver it is worthless.

lisandra · « **Reply #27 on:** August 28, 2010, 07:29:54 PM »

I must have been asleep the past 5 years cause I missed all the other 10fps, HDR, panorama cameras for less than a grand...
OF COURSE it offers something special for photographers! is everyone here smoking crack??
or maybe I'm just becoming a fanboy here?

count_zero · « **Reply #28 on:** August 28, 2010, 07:56:55 PM »

I agree. It's a gimmicky step backwards. EVFs will only get cheaper and better. My Samsung Galaxy S AMOLED is quite nice, I wish I had it on my PEN, plus it's cheaper does geotagging and makes toast!

Panther · « **Reply #29 on:** August 28, 2010, 07:58:08 PM »

Quote from: popo on August 28, 2010, 12:43:17 AM

What Sony have done is provide possibly the best video SLR-like camera for regular (non-pro) users, but it is nothing special for most photography uses.

Good point here.....

lisandra · « **Reply #30 on:** August 28, 2010, 08:09:05 PM »

Ok, I'm crazy then...that must be it... while the forum was down I went insane.....I must be because the NEX suuuucked testicles but a lot of people here had oral sex with it, and then this thing is awesome and most people think it's a crappy, 60 year old design "gimmick".

adash · « **Reply #31 on:** August 28, 2010, 09:37:29 PM »

Quote

the NEX suuuucked testicles but a lot of people here had oral sex with it

I can't seem to open my mouth so wide....
Now on the design - it is not so old. A similar idea was implemented some 10 years ago in E-10, and yet another similar, but not exactly the same idea in E-330.
I can not say myself that these a33/55 are awesome. Not yet!

lisandra · « **Reply #32 on:** August 28, 2010, 09:57:58 PM »

Quote from: adash on August 28, 2010, 09:37:29 PM

Quote
the NEX suuuucked testicles but a lot of people here had oral sex with it
I can't seem to open my mouth so wide....
Now on the design - it is not so old. A similar idea was implemented some 10 years ago in E-10, and yet another similar, but not exactly the same idea in E-330.
I can not say myself that these a33/55 are awesome. Not yet!

At least people should admit that that's quite an impressive spec sheet for the money... and from sony!...at least give me that

adash · « **Reply #33 on:** August 28, 2010, 10:00:45 PM »

Quote from: popo on August 28, 2010, 12:43:17 AM

......They sound great on a spec list but if they fail to deliver it is worthless.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #34 on:** August 28, 2010, 10:18:14 PM »

lisandra you are not crazy the nex sucked somewhat and this new sony
seems intriguing and worth watching

"much madness is divinest sense to a discerning eye....much sense the starkest madness............. tis the majority"

emily dickenson

popo · « **Reply #35 on:** August 29, 2010, 01:34:12 AM »

lisandra... you do seem... rather enthusiastic about things. I'm just the opposite. I see things very much as they are.

I want to like Sony. I used to have a Sony DSLR, but at the time I had no choice other than to leave them for Canon to fill the big hole where the A7xx should be. Even now, I do miss unique features they implement, like the quick AF live view with tilting screen of the A350. If I stuck around, I'd probably be very happy with the A5xx family now.

The Axx series is perfect for those wanting DSLR like form factor with AF for video. No one else comes close. The big problem is I'm not interested in video. From a photography perspective, the limitations on the high speed modes significantly limit their usefulness. I'm sure they will resolve it in the future, but for now, it makes them an "almost" great camera. The other features are already in the A5xx series and more usable, so there's no significant benefit to Axx once you strip away video.

So in short, I'm not saying the Axx sucks. Only that video aside (as I'm not interested in it), what's left for photography is not as good as a traditional SLR - yet.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #36 on:** August 29, 2010, 07:53:03 AM »

10 fps is nothing to sneeze at , in fact its the perfect way to take a picture of a sneeze, if your so inclined

also the no mirror slap is a step foward

lisandra · « **Reply #37 on:** August 29, 2010, 11:03:38 AM »

Quote from: popo on August 29, 2010, 01:34:12 AM

lisandra... you do seem... rather enthusiastic about things. I'm just the opposite. I see things very much as they are.

I want to like Sony. I used to have a Sony DSLR, but at the time I had no choice other than to leave them for Canon to fill the big hole where the A7xx should be. Even now, I do miss unique features they implement, like the quick AF live view with tilting screen of the A350. If I stuck around, I'd probably be very happy with the A5xx family now.

The Axx series is perfect for those wanting DSLR like form factor with AF for video. No one else comes close. The big problem is I'm not interested in video. From a photography perspective, the limitations on the high speed modes significantly limit their usefulness. I'm sure they will resolve it in the future, but for now, it makes them an "almost" great camera. The other features are already in the A5xx series and more usable, so there's no significant benefit to Axx once you strip away video.

So in short, I'm not saying the Axx sucks. Only that video aside (as I'm not interested in it), what's left for photography is not as good as a traditional SLR - yet.

it's just that compared to everything else at this price everything else seems to lag behind.

barondla · « **Reply #38 on:** August 29, 2010, 11:23:58 AM »

Its an interesting camera - especially for the price, but not anything I would be interested in. I see numerous weaknesses.

1. What good is 10fps if the frames aren't in focus? If you need 10 fps how about the Casio that does 60?

2. Don't like loosing the light and I am guessing, the sharpness by going thru the fixed mirror. Many have told me, when done correctly there will be no loss of sharpness. Don't believe it. Canon made a pelimirror EOS film camera. Remember seeing a review by Keppler ( think in Pop Photo). He comapred the Pelimirror EOS to a standard EOS shooting resolution charts from a tripod. Guess what, the standard EOS beat the Peli by a fair amount. This was a very expensive Canon, kind of doubt they didn't do it correctly!

3. Loose the one advantage of mirrorless camera most important to me. Being able to use all my old lenses.

I do like the idea of sweep panorama. The HDR is interesting depending on how it looks. Wonder how long it will be before both of these are available in a program and can be achieved (easily) with any camera in post processing?

My worry is, people in this price range of this are often looking to do kids in sports. The 10fps will reinforce this. Once they find how badly the viewfinder and af work they will be disappointed.

Still an interesting camera from Sony. Now we have another category of IL camera to confuse people. At least they gave it a name.
thanks
barondla

travfar · « **Reply #39 on:** August 29, 2010, 12:46:04 PM »

Quote from: barondla on August 29, 2010, 11:23:58 AM

1. What good is 10fps if the frames aren't in focus? If you need 10 fps how about the Casio that does 60?

Why do you think the frames aren't in focus? One of the benefits of this camera is the fast and continuous AF. The big downside to the 10fps mode is the "dead screen". Drop down to 6fps and all is well.

barondla · « **Reply #40 on:** August 30, 2010, 04:53:10 AM »

Only skimmed the DPR review. Thought they said the camera focusing could not keep up with 10fps very well. If thats correct, and the view finder only works well at 6fps, then the camera can't do much that a good moving mirror camera can. If there isn't a Canon or Nikon $1k moving mirror DSLR that does 6 fps there will be very soon.
thanks
barondla

cosinaphile · « **Reply #41 on:** August 30, 2010, 05:35:04 AM »

sweep panaroma will never be available post processing, its dependant on special behavior of sensor \shutter

travfar · « **Reply #42 on:** August 30, 2010, 07:19:24 AM »

Quote from: barondla on August 30, 2010, 04:53:10 AM

Only skimmed the DPR review. Thought they said the camera focusing could not keep up with 10fps very well. If thats correct, and the view finder only works well at 6fps, then the camera can't do much that a good moving mirror camera can. If there isn't a Canon or Nikon $1k moving mirror DSLR that does 6 fps there will be very soon.
thanks
barondla

I would read some other reviews. They say that the focusing is fast. As for the viewfinder issue at 10fps. The issue is that it doesn't show the current frame but the last frame taken. That make sense since the sensor is busy going full out at 10fps, it doesn't have time to service the liveview. So the "problem" is that the viewfinder is lagging by 1/10th of a second. Considering that human reaction time is 1/4 of a second. I can live with it.

adash · « **Reply #43 on:** August 30, 2010, 08:57:29 AM »

travfar, human reaction is indeed about 250ms, but that's for complete actuation of a muscle after a visual stimulus. I guess that tracking an already moving object is much faster.
This camera should have an always-on, never-freezing, zero-lagging display/EVF in order to justify it's design concept. Everything less than that is just another compromise.

travfar · « **Reply #44 on:** August 30, 2010, 09:15:54 AM »

Actually tracking a already moving object requires even less information. The way we track is that we predict where an object will move. We don't track it in real time down to a 1/10th a second. We anticipate where something will go based on experience. That's why we can "track" things even when they become momentarily obscured and it's also why people with experience can catch a pop fly while someone without let's it fly over their heads. Finally, the psych degree is useful.

I doubt most people will even notice the 1/10th of a second lag even if you tell them since it's on the order of the "lag" people see constantly using the screen on the back of a P&S camera. I definitely don't see how it's worst than the total blackness you see using an OVF with a mirrored SLR that may last longer than 1/10th of a second.

In the end, hands on experience will tell the tale. Like the much maligned NEX interface in many of the reviews, the reality when people started using it was far better.

adash · « **Reply #45 on:** August 30, 2010, 09:26:24 AM »

1/10th is not much of a lag, but may ruin some sports shots and the like, where photographers trend to predict events too.
And yes, tracking a moving target is indeed a process of predicting, I was going to say exactly that, but also no prediction will work for a long time if not supplied with accurate information.
Strangely, I never did series shots on an SLR. I never had a dSLR and series shooting is not included in the feature list of my Soviet Zenit 12xp. Seeing nothing in the VF is not an issue, as I always have to wind the film manually. Yeah, no motor drive either.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #46 on:** August 30, 2010, 09:45:49 AM »

It will be interesting to see head-to-head tests of the Axx cameras vs. models like the Canon T2i et al. Especially since video is touted at an Axx advantage--but is it significantly better than the competition? And while the Axx can focus full time during a video clip, does the Sony lenses focus quickly and silently? Will they hobble the Axx with a cheap kit zoom that, while having snappy focus, the focus motor will grind and moan on the soundtrack?

adash · « **Reply #47 on:** August 30, 2010, 09:51:44 AM »

Centauri27, the AF noise could be easily removed by recording with an external mike.
These might be actually very good for video as both PD AF is faster, and APS-C size sensor will provide a shallower DOF and the much-desired "Film look".
If tracking AF is lagging behind action, I guess it could be fixed easily via firmware, I guess.

travfar · « **Reply #48 on:** August 30, 2010, 09:56:40 AM »

Quote from: Centauri27 on August 30, 2010, 09:45:49 AM

Especially since video is touted at an Axx advantage--but is it significantly better than the competition?

A good indicator would be the NEX. The A33 uses the same sensor as the NEX, the A55 using a higher resolution version of it. By all reports. NEX video is outstanding.

lisandra · « **Reply #49 on:** August 30, 2010, 11:16:44 AM »

Quote from: travfar on August 30, 2010, 09:56:40 AM

Quote from: Centauri27 on August 30, 2010, 09:45:49 AM
Especially since video is touted at an Axx advantage--but is it significantly better than the competition?

A good indicator would be the NEX. The A33 uses the same sensor as the NEX, the A55 using a higher resolution version of it. By all reports. NEX video is outstanding.

the A55 has a brand new design sensor

Author Topic: Sony's new "fixed mirror" camera (Read 4558 times)

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