Author Topic: Sony's new "fixed mirror" camera (Read 4557 times)

Centauri27 · « **on:** August 27, 2010, 09:01:04 AM »

I just read an article about this new camera from Sony that is suppose to be their "bridge" between SLRs and EVILs--an SLR-looking unit with a fixed mirror! They claim it gives all the advantages of an SLR, with phase-detect focussing, plus 10fps shutter (!), combined with live-view capabilities like mirrorless cams.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/

I didn't quite know what to make of this as I read the review. My first thought was, "What's the point? If I want an SLR-style camera with the advantages of SLR, I'm going to buy an SLR!" What do you think? And do you find it a bit odd that they're producing yet another new system so soon on the heels of the NEX series?

travfar · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:25:13 AM »

It has all the advantages of a DSLR and not any of the disadvantages. The only arguable minus over a DSLR is that it doesn't have an optical viewfinder. What it does give you is AF all the time even during video. So it gives you everything you want from a DSLR and more. I don't consider it a bridge between a MILF and a DSLR, I consider the future of DSLRs. The guys on the Sony forum are going nuts over it. Many of the high end Sony DSLR users, A700 and above, are ditching those in favor of this.

voyager · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:42:11 AM »

I must say that the A33 and the A55 are the most tempting cameras for me to buy since the E-P1 was released, just because of how simply amazing they look in every way. Sony doesn't have a knack for making attractive cameras overall, but I absolutely love everything about these ones.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:43:53 AM »

I didn't check--does the A33/55 take the same lens as the other "A" series DSLRs? If so, that would be a very compelling reason to switch.

My question is: won't having a "semi transparent" mirror dilute the light-gathering ability of the lens?

Regardless, kudos to Sony for "thinking outside of the box" on these cameras.

voyager · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:46:05 AM »

Yes, it uses the Sony Alpha mount.

The way it is designed, and it is not a new design, is from some angles, the mirror appears to reflect, and others light passes through it. So you lose about 30% of the light that goes directly to the AF sensor. From what I've seen, however, it gives you about as much light as a Pentamirror viewfinder.

adash · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:49:10 AM »

As far as I know, that's not an innovation. There was a similar system in Oly E-10, some ten years ago.
And the beam-splitting prism is actually a bit worse than a moving mirror, as it splits the beam all the time and the sensor is actually getting a fixed percentage of the light all the time too. Thus all lenses become slower (Say, one stop slower) and you need to go to higher ISO to get the same shutter speed. Kind'a meaningless, don't you think?

voyager · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:51:26 AM »

The E-10 is not the same type of design. This is a pecille mirror, not a beam splitting prism.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:55:05 AM »

Yes, that's what I was afraid of. In our never ending quest to get the fastest lens that we can afford, I'd be very reluctant to give up a stop (or more) of light just for the advantages (and novelty) of having a fixed mirror camera... I would take an m4/3 camera with EVF and phase detect over this any day.

adash · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »

The Translucent mirror does the same. You will have only 70% (roughly half a stop light loss) of the light reaching your sensor, in contrast with a true DSLR system, in which you will have either 0% (mirror down) or 100% (mirror up).

popo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2010, 11:03:23 AM »

Full of promise, they don't quite deliver it all...

The biggest drawback with them seems to be implementation issues. Having the AF sensors continuously exposed to the subject should allow for better tracking accuracy than DSLRs where they have little snaps between shots. But according to dpreview the accuracy in the Sony continuous tracking AF isn't there. Plus the EVF implementation in continuous shooting gives you a slideshow of what happened, not what is happening. That wont be fun at all for tracking a moving subject. And before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick, I'm only talking about still shooting. I'm not really interested in video. Serious photographers might want to wait for the 2nd generation, but I'm sure the video people alone will buy enough of them to make it viable.

Panther · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2010, 03:24:07 PM »

Concept is good but review (dpreview) is bad.....Not on my list at the moment until focusing issues can be resolved...

However, for those that think dpreview "sucks"....

travfar · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2010, 05:36:15 PM »

Quote from: Panther on August 27, 2010, 03:24:07 PM

Concept is good but review (dpreview) is bad.....Not on my list at the moment until focusing issues can be resolved...

However, for those that think dpreview "sucks"....

What?

? Are we reading the same review at dpreview? Bad? They gave it "gold". Here's the last sentence of the review.

"Ultimately though it is the 'bread and butter' stuff - the excellent all-round performance of the A55's key systems, its fluid ergonomics and largely hassle-free handling that really make it stand out, and we have no hesitation in giving it a gold award."

If that's bad, then what's good?

Panther · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2010, 06:12:53 PM »

Quote from: travfar on August 27, 2010, 05:36:15 PM

Quote from: Panther on August 27, 2010, 03:24:07 PM
Concept is good but review (dpreview) is bad.....Not on my list at the moment until focusing issues can be resolved...

However, for those that think dpreview "sucks"....

What?? Are we reading the same review at dpreview? Bad? They gave it "gold". Here's the last sentence of the review.

"Ultimately though it is the 'bread and butter' stuff - the excellent all-round performance of the A55's key systems, its fluid ergonomics and largely hassle-free handling that really make it stand out, and we have no hesitation in giving it a gold award."

If that's bad, then what's good?

You might have missed this part (below) from the dpreview review

Quote

Whilst the A55 gives very impressive performance in terms of speed and burst depth, two things let it down when shooting continuous bursts. The first is a recovery time of 50 seconds, for some of which time the camera is essentially unusable - almost all of its available processing power being used to write the images to card. With a fast card installed, the camera never stops shooting unless you remove your finger from the shutter release. However, if after finishing a burst, you try to access image review, the A55 freezes. Both EVF and LCD black out, the camera remains completely frozen (except for AF, oddly, which still operates) for roughly 20 seconds. After this time has elapsed the A55 wakes up again, and allows image review, albeit it with a lag of several seconds between images. Only after the full 50 seconds of recovery time has elapsed does it return to its normal level of responsiveness.

The second major issue with the A55's continuous shooting is that it cannot maintain live view in 10fps and 6fps capture. In 10fps mode the A55 shows a constantly updating slide show of the image you just took, which means that you can't accurately tell where you subject is, - only where it just was. This can be rather disconcerting when panning as you keep being given the impression that the subject is further back than it now actually is.

Panther · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2010, 06:14:40 PM »

And then finally....

Quote

However, as far as focusing is concerned, when faced with fast-moving targets the A55 has the same problem as it does in 10fps mode, and seems consistently to lag slightly behind the action. The conclusion has to be that for everyday use, the A55's AF is perfectly capable, and very good for its class, but in a demanding shooting situation where efficient predictive AF is called for, i.e. when tackling sports and action photography, it cannot always keep up.

travfar · « **Reply #14 on:** August 27, 2010, 07:40:14 PM »

Those are few points amongst a sea of praise. You see that in all reviews. Taken as a whole, dpreview gave it a gold with no hesitation.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #15 on:** August 27, 2010, 08:04:34 PM »

this is genuinely innovative and needs to be watched ...this technology offers quieter and much faster continuous shooting , no miurror slap!too bad the evf tears and the noise perf is not too exciting, still this is pretty cool stuff cant wait to see the raw output

adash · « **Reply #16 on:** August 27, 2010, 08:11:33 PM »

It's not. There was a similar system in Oly E-10, some ten years ago. You may call it translucent mirror instead of a beam-splitting prism, but it does basically the same. I still wonder why it had to be an EVF camera, as a permanent translucent mirror can supply enough light for a genuine Through-The-Lens OVF instead. Looks like another not-too-wise decision by Sony.

travfar · « **Reply #17 on:** August 27, 2010, 08:26:43 PM »

Because the beam is split in two. One for the imaging sensor and one for AF sensor. They'd have to split it again for a OVF. As per the review, the EVF is a match for the OVF in many SLRs. Personally, I prefer EVFs since it is what you will get. An OVF is an approximation at best.

Panther · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2010, 08:46:25 PM »

Quote from: travfar on August 27, 2010, 07:40:14 PM

Those are few points amongst a sea of praise. You see that in all reviews. Taken as a whole, dpreview gave it a gold with no hesitation.

I'd debate differently than what you've said here....but then again you're the Sony "experten" here....So as usual, you're correct again....

That being said, I did state earlier that this camera is not for me...

lisandra · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:35:45 PM »

OOOOK people, stop having a cow...I hated the NEX and made it public, everyone here knows it, because it isn't a real photography tool, but this is something worth buying. First off, while this is NOT a new concept, it's certainly a breakthrough. There have been cameras with pecille mirrors before, but none that work so good. I see some of you are worried that the pecille mirror is gonna take some light from the sensor and your gonna have to crank up the ISO, apparently it's not an issue. In fact what I've read so far is that the camera actually overexposes by .3 to .7 (if you've owned a sony, you know this is typical). For those of you who don't like dpreview, imaging resource has a more in depth review and the photos are already in the comparometer.
6 stop auto HDR that actually looks HDR, stitch panorama, hand-held twilight that actually works with people, sd card support (I heard it can take two cards at once), usb/HDMI out (none of that proprietary bulls***) 10fps, zeiss glass, phase detection in movies and live view, it's as small as the g1, and has THE cleanest ISO 25600 JPEG I've ever seen bar none. For 800 dollars. With the lens. This is a dream people, the kind that rarely comes true, stop trying to look for faults in nooks and crannies and give it the praise it rightly deserves (I did it too, I thought it didn't have a DOF preview button, it does). For the first time ever, I can without a doubt say that sony actually made something exactly like the people wanted it.

voyager · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:49:42 PM »

Hey, the camera isn't perfect, none of them are. But it is definitely an interesting design, worthy of some interest.

lisandra · « **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:53:41 PM »

Quote from: voyager on August 27, 2010, 09:49:42 PM

Hey, the camera isn't perfect, none of them are. But it is definitely an interesting design, worthy of some interest.

that's right. Perfect? there's no such thing, but all this for 800 is unheard of. I predict sony will make a killing with this.

peterb666 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:57:06 PM »

Quote from: adash on August 27, 2010, 08:11:33 PM

It's not. There was a similar system in Oly E-10, some ten years ago. You may call it translucent mirror instead of a beam-splitting prism, but it does basically the same. I still wonder why it had to be an EVF camera, as a permanent translucent mirror can supply enough light for a genuine Through-The-Lens OVF instead. Looks like another not-too-wise decision by Sony.

Seems rather strange but I expect it has got to the stage where EVFs are getting cheper than decent optical systems. Other than that, the EVF allows for a considerably larger viewfinder than most optical systems.

Beam splitters were common in reflex style cine cameras so that Olympus technology was nothing new - just different. You had an optical TTL live view in cine cameras and there were some mighty fine ones in the 1970s.

adash · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:58:52 PM »

Sorry, I did not read the review at all. Later on I realized that this is the long-awaited Mirrorless camera with Phase Detect AF! The inclusion of the Alpa mount does somehow ditch the compactness advantage, and a freezing EVF is not what I want in burst mode either.
It just seems like another suboptimal sollution so far,
a good idea, but bad execution.
I think I will wait for an improved version of that!

adash · « **Reply #24 on:** August 27, 2010, 10:01:41 PM »

Quote

Other than that, the EVF allows for a considerably larger viewfinder than most optical systems.

It will also allow much brighter view too.

Author Topic: Sony's new "fixed mirror" camera (Read 4557 times)

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